Initially I wasn't sure whether or not their interactions were cute or just weird. The names that he calls her are extremely odd although I do see how it could be considered cute to some people. The conversation about money was very odd to me though. Between what sounded like Nora being very greedy and Torvold being very controlling about money and criticizing her ability to save money, I questioned the health of their marriage. I wondered if he looked down on her and if she was simply in the marriage for the money. Now, I feel like they do love each other.
I feel as though I was correct at the start that their marriage was unhealthy. Torvold was simply using her literally as his little doll. I'm not sure that either one of them truly knows what it means to love each other but I do know that Nora definitely has figured out what love is not. The controlling nature of the marriage is unhealthy and Nora realizes this.
I agree that the interactions between Nora and Torvald were weird because of the nicknames he gives her such as lark and spendthrift. I see their marriage as very weak. This is because there is a lack of honesty and one person has more control. Torvald seems to have the power in the marriage asserting his dominance as he looks down on Nora as if he were a child. He also gives her rules to follow such as telling her she cannot eat macaroons which she disobeys. I think that Torvald shows Nora affection, but since he does not treat her as an equal it is not true love. Nora, on the other hand, appears to love Torvald. She is willing to risk her reputation by secretly borrowing money as long as Torvald's health issues were resolved. I think that the marriage is weak because the true love that Nora shows for Torvald is not reciprocated.
Torvald and Nora's marriage, at first glance, appears to be quite balanced and mutualistic. Nora's flighty, quick-spending and squirrelly nature is counteracted by Torvald's authority and financial responsibility. The two flirt often, Torvald frequenting pet names such as "lark" and "spendthrift." Despite Torvald having clear control over the household, or doll house if you will, they are content with each other, both partner giving the other what they need. However, a secret about Nora's immoral behavior, in addition to the constant lies she tries to tell him, could change the way Torvald thinks about Nora, and consequentially the marriage. I foresee her lies and past actions catching up with her, even if it was all for Torvald's sake.
Do you still believe that they appear balanced? How did Ibsen switch the audience's understanding of their relationship? At what point does the flirting become something else?
At first glance, the marriage between Nora and Torvald appears sickly sweet, with the touching and pet names (literally). As the two continued their interaction, I was a little weirded out by the fact that Nora was so excited when her husband brought out money. It seemed to me as if he were giving her an allowance, as if she were a small child, not a married adult. To me, it appeared as if the two were in love, yet there was a clear distinction that Torvald was completely in control of Nora. While the loving names may blind readers at first, the control Torlvad has over Nora is concerning when the names are removed.
Towards the end of the play, one realizes that Torvald uses the names as a mockery for Nora. One can see that he does not value her, neither as a friend nor a wife. Torvald does not really love Nora, and he shows this by referring to her as birds. He does not love Nora, he simply sees her as a beautiful piece for his home.
I was immediately struck by Torvald's insistence on referring to his wife in a diminishing and undermining manner. While some may say that his nicknames for Nora are cute and playful, I see them as nothing but a revelation as to his true regard for her. He views her as less intelligent and less important than him. One does not refer to their equal or respected counterpart as a "little squirrel" or a "spendthrift". It leads me to believe that there are no interactions of any substance between Torvald and Nora due to his lack of respect for her. Upon close evaluation, one will observe that Torvald is never serious with Nora. He does not take her seriously.
Looking at their marriage as a product of modern society, I would say it is definitely controlling, even to the point of abusive. Torvald is very possessive of Nora- always saying "my" or "little" when referring to her. He also tries to control her spending habits (this turned into the main problem of the story, as we now all know). From the beginning, I was not a fan of how Torvald treated Nora, but as the story progresses, their relationship becomes more and more twisted, and my opinion of both characters keep falling.
My first impression was similar to everyone else's. Torvald clearly looks down toward Nora by not only calling her pet names, but he also uses the terms "my" and "little" before each woodland creature. This demonstrates dominance and inequality in the relationship. He obviously sees Nora as someone who needs to be looked after and has no ability to care for herself. This is why he limits her spending and why she is forced to hide the macaroons. As the play progresses, especially in Act III, their marriage has completely crumbled, for Nora realizes his condescending behavior and finally decides to leave. This just goes to show that the "cute" and "playful" tone used in the language at the beginning of the play enhances their marriage as a complete farce. Remember when we went over characteristics of our ideal spouse in class? Torvald is the complete and exact opposite of what I do not want.
At first their relationship struck me as disgusting, however I've never been one for romance or pet names. However, once I got past the initial thought of puking, I remember their relationship seeming superficial from the start. Unlike the end of the play though, Nora didn't seem to mind their superficial relationship. Whenever Torvald brought up her spending, Nora changed the subject by showing him another thing she bought. Also Torvald's nicknames for Nora like "spendthrift" and "featherbrain" show that he does not entirely respect Nora. I do believe that the author used the beginning of the story to paint Nora as flightier than she turns out to be so that her decision to leave at the end is more powerful and more of a shock.
My first impressions of Nora and Torvald's marriage were that their relationship was not exactly normal (even in their contemporary standards) but nonetheless acceptable to a degree. Torvald's pet names for Nora could have shown a deep affection shared between each other, but the absence of a similar course of action by Nora is what brought an oddness factor into play.
I find it interesting that throughout the course of the play, Torvald calls Nora all sorts of demeaning names--"spendthrift", "little squirrel/lark/etc."--yet Nora does not call Torvald anything but just that--"Torvald". (At least, as far as I remember.) If their relationship truly was mutually flirty and sweet, wouldn't she at least have some pet names for him? Having finished the play and looking back at their sickly sweet encounters, it seems obvious to me that Nora despised being undermined from the start by not reciprocating these nicknames. Also, Nora not reciprocating the names could be borne out of a lack of power to do so; in other words, it demonstrates the power dynamic of Nora and Torvald's marriage. Torvald is able to talk down to his wife because he is the man of the house and has the ability to speak to his "doll-wife" how he chooses to. Meanwhile, Nora is the doll--in a way, she cannot address Torvald in any sort of meaningful way, because as a mere plaything, she is mute. It is only when she leaves the "doll's house" that she finds her voice, and has enough dignity not to call her husband names while doing so.
Initially I wasn't sure whether or not their interactions were cute or just weird. The names that he calls her are extremely odd although I do see how it could be considered cute to some people. The conversation about money was very odd to me though. Between what sounded like Nora being very greedy and Torvold being very controlling about money and criticizing her ability to save money, I questioned the health of their marriage. I wondered if he looked down on her and if she was simply in the marriage for the money. Now, I feel like they do love each other.
ReplyDeleteSo what do you think now that you finished?
DeleteI feel as though I was correct at the start that their marriage was unhealthy. Torvold was simply using her literally as his little doll. I'm not sure that either one of them truly knows what it means to love each other but I do know that Nora definitely has figured out what love is not. The controlling nature of the marriage is unhealthy and Nora realizes this.
DeleteI agree that the interactions between Nora and Torvald were weird because of the nicknames he gives her such as lark and spendthrift. I see their marriage as very weak. This is because there is a lack of honesty and one person has more control. Torvald seems to have the power in the marriage asserting his dominance as he looks down on Nora as if he were a child. He also gives her rules to follow such as telling her she cannot eat macaroons which she disobeys. I think that Torvald shows Nora affection, but since he does not treat her as an equal it is not true love. Nora, on the other hand, appears to love Torvald. She is willing to risk her reputation by secretly borrowing money as long as Torvald's health issues were resolved. I think that the marriage is weak because the true love that Nora shows for Torvald is not reciprocated.
ReplyDeleteTorvald and Nora's marriage, at first glance, appears to be quite balanced and mutualistic. Nora's flighty, quick-spending and squirrelly nature is counteracted by Torvald's authority and financial responsibility. The two flirt often, Torvald frequenting pet names such as "lark" and "spendthrift." Despite Torvald having clear control over the household, or doll house if you will, they are content with each other, both partner giving the other what they need. However, a secret about Nora's immoral behavior, in addition to the constant lies she tries to tell him, could change the way Torvald thinks about Nora, and consequentially the marriage. I foresee her lies and past actions catching up with her, even if it was all for Torvald's sake.
ReplyDeleteDo you still believe that they appear balanced? How did Ibsen switch the audience's understanding of their relationship? At what point does the flirting become something else?
DeleteAt first glance, the marriage between Nora and Torvald appears sickly sweet, with the touching and pet names (literally). As the two continued their interaction, I was a little weirded out by the fact that Nora was so excited when her husband brought out money. It seemed to me as if he were giving her an allowance, as if she were a small child, not a married adult. To me, it appeared as if the two were in love, yet there was a clear distinction that Torvald was completely in control of Nora. While the loving names may blind readers at first, the control Torlvad has over Nora is concerning when the names are removed.
ReplyDeleteInteresting activity. If we removed the names... How about the way the names change tone in the end!?
DeleteTowards the end of the play, one realizes that Torvald uses the names as a mockery for Nora. One can see that he does not value her, neither as a friend nor a wife. Torvald does not really love Nora, and he shows this by referring to her as birds. He does not love Nora, he simply sees her as a beautiful piece for his home.
DeleteI was immediately struck by Torvald's insistence on referring to his wife in a diminishing and undermining manner. While some may say that his nicknames for Nora are cute and playful, I see them as nothing but a revelation as to his true regard for her. He views her as less intelligent and less important than him. One does not refer to their equal or respected counterpart as a "little squirrel" or a "spendthrift". It leads me to believe that there are no interactions of any substance between Torvald and Nora due to his lack of respect for her. Upon close evaluation, one will observe that Torvald is never serious with Nora. He does not take her seriously.
ReplyDeleteVery insightful, Rachael - you were right from the very start.
DeleteLooking at their marriage as a product of modern society, I would say it is definitely controlling, even to the point of abusive. Torvald is very possessive of Nora- always saying "my" or "little" when referring to her. He also tries to control her spending habits (this turned into the main problem of the story, as we now all know). From the beginning, I was not a fan of how Torvald treated Nora, but as the story progresses, their relationship becomes more and more twisted, and my opinion of both characters keep falling.
ReplyDeleteMore twisted is right. Remember the time period!
DeleteI think the people during that time period would have thought Nora and Torvald's marriage was strong and healthy, which makes me even more upset.
DeleteMy first impression was similar to everyone else's. Torvald clearly looks down toward Nora by not only calling her pet names, but he also uses the terms "my" and "little" before each woodland creature. This demonstrates dominance and inequality in the relationship. He obviously sees Nora as someone who needs to be looked after and has no ability to care for herself. This is why he limits her spending and why she is forced to hide the macaroons. As the play progresses, especially in Act III, their marriage has completely crumbled, for Nora realizes his condescending behavior and finally decides to leave. This just goes to show that the "cute" and "playful" tone used in the language at the beginning of the play enhances their marriage as a complete farce. Remember when we went over characteristics of our ideal spouse in class? Torvald is the complete and exact opposite of what I do not want.
ReplyDeleteAt first their relationship struck me as disgusting, however I've never been one for romance or pet names. However, once I got past the initial thought of puking, I remember their relationship seeming superficial from the start. Unlike the end of the play though, Nora didn't seem to mind their superficial relationship. Whenever Torvald brought up her spending, Nora changed the subject by showing him another thing she bought. Also Torvald's nicknames for Nora like "spendthrift" and "featherbrain" show that he does not entirely respect Nora. I do believe that the author used the beginning of the story to paint Nora as flightier than she turns out to be so that her decision to leave at the end is more powerful and more of a shock.
ReplyDeleteMy first impressions of Nora and Torvald's marriage were that their relationship was not exactly normal (even in their contemporary standards) but nonetheless acceptable to a degree. Torvald's pet names for Nora could have shown a deep affection shared between each other, but the absence of a similar course of action by Nora is what brought an oddness factor into play.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that throughout the course of the play, Torvald calls Nora all sorts of demeaning names--"spendthrift", "little squirrel/lark/etc."--yet Nora does not call Torvald anything but just that--"Torvald". (At least, as far as I remember.) If their relationship truly was mutually flirty and sweet, wouldn't she at least have some pet names for him? Having finished the play and looking back at their sickly sweet encounters, it seems obvious to me that Nora despised being undermined from the start by not reciprocating these nicknames. Also, Nora not reciprocating the names could be borne out of a lack of power to do so; in other words, it demonstrates the power dynamic of Nora and Torvald's marriage. Torvald is able to talk down to his wife because he is the man of the house and has the ability to speak to his "doll-wife" how he chooses to. Meanwhile, Nora is the doll--in a way, she cannot address Torvald in any sort of meaningful way, because as a mere plaything, she is mute. It is only when she leaves the "doll's house" that she finds her voice, and has enough dignity not to call her husband names while doing so.
ReplyDelete